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Friday, October 07, 2005

Archie Bunker Was Right: America - Love It Or Leave It!

The best television show in the early 70s was All In The Family (I stopped watching it after Archie's opinions were neutered and Gloria and Mike moved to California). This ground breaking show gave us the first real tastes of the kind of discourse you read on blogs today - left vs right/the Meatheads vs Archies. ( I still think the greatest line Archie ever spoke was when he was showing an ashtray to George Jefferson, 'That right there is the symbol of Apollo 14 - that's what separates the US of A from them atheistic ping-pong playing Chinks and all them other Commie losers' Brilliant!)

Why this show was so innovative was that until it aired, American television was in denial as to the massive culture shift the 60s ushered in. Art was not imitating life. Now, Laugh-in was a great show, but it was just too slapstick to cover the topics that confronted Archie and the gang from week to week: politics, racism, feminism, communism, religion, bigotry, alcoholism, gay rights, family values, the Old Guard vs Social Progressivism, etc. I bet anyone reading this had an Archie Bunker in his or her family ( or an Anti-Archie). I did in the form of my Grandfather - depression era child, ran away to sea at 16, WWII Vet - US Navy Capt & Merchant Marine (See Honor Roll Link on the right), Father, staunch conservative, hater of Communism.

One episode I remember was one where Archie showed a bumper sticker to Meathead that read, 'America - Love It Or Leave It' To me, not truer words could have been spoken. It absolutely baffles me that there are people in this nation that do not think America is the best country on the planet. How can people think like this considering what this nation has done for billions of people across the globe?

Ben Stein has a fantastic piece in the most recent American Spectator where he waxes lyrical about why every Jewish person in the world needs to thank the US for their very existence. Let's face it; these people were about five months away from being wiped clean off the map of Europe. If it had not been for the US, Israel as we know it would not exist. Most American Jews, according to Stein are left of moderate to very liberal, whereas most Jews in Israel are much more conservative. Perhaps so since living in Israel proper means having to wake up each day with the threat of exploding terrorists at your door step, I guess I would be much more conservative, patriotic and pro-military.

Taking this idea further, I would like one and maybe more than one lefty to say that the United States is the best country on the planet, period. No debate. No double talk. No, yeah but...No equivocating - just say that the US is superior to any country and has been for 250 years. If anyone can't say that, pack your bags and leave. Get out. I can't think of anything more un-American than to criticize what this nation does for its own citizens and the rest of the world. I can't fathom the relentless assault the left takes on all that is right and just with how we act as the world's only real hope for justice and peace.

Case in point - the latest pictures of Abu Ghraib Prison that might be released because some low-life judge thinks it's in the interest of free speech to have them sent out to the world. In a previous post, I stated that anyone who agrees with releasing these pictures is un-American and values our nation's security so little as to the harm that will come to us here in this country and for any American abroad. That's right, kids, once these pictures are released, no American is safe outside our borders. And I'm not talking just about our brave men and women in uniform. I'm talking about any and every American - diplomats, missionaries, Peace Corps volunteers, ex-Pats, tourists, etc. We've seen how wonderfully Americans are treated by the radical followers of Islam, save the images of AG Prison - just ask any member of the Leon Klinghoffer family how great Islam is.

America Love It Or Leave It! What a great national motto that would be. I'm not advocating replacing the hallowed words of In God We Trust with a bumper sticker. But in the context of what is happening in this nation and the world, America - Love It Or Leave It is as important to me as the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. Good and bad, the US is the greatest country ever. If you don't think this is true, there's the door, Comrade. Good Luck in Canada!

Take That You Atheistic Pinko Meathead, You! - Thanks Archie.

(I welcome no comment that attempts to disdain or refute the words in this post - save your lefty solipsisms for my other pearls of Conservative Wisdom soon to follow - God Bless America!)

"Let's face it; these people were about five months away from being wiped clean off the map of Europe. If it had not been for the US, Israel as we know it would not exist."

I agree with this.

So why do you think the ACLU and the ADL are so hostile against Christians?
I loved this! :)
Your regular left leaning contributors haven't answered your challenge ... one could only hope they are packing their bags as we speak.

I also had a grandfather, al la "Archie." He loved this country; he spoke his mind and didn't give a rat's *** if you didn't like what he had to say. You always knew where you stood with him. I shutter to think what he would say about the politically correct, America bashing hatred that the left has for this great country of ours. Actually, I'm sure he's rolling in his grave ...

That being said, thanks for bringing back the memories of All in the Family. The character "Archie" emobodied a spirit that is lacking in so many people today, and of course I speak of the above politically correct, America bashing left. The left who would see this country succomb to a Cum ba yah, guitar mass, socialstic wasteland of mindless ner-do-wells, embracing and then rewarding the least common denominator. The left who thinks achievment warrants the wearing of a 'scarlet letter.' The left who would have our Founding ideals trampled into oblivion so as to embrace a world view that allows democracy to be shunned because it's convenient and allows religious extremism to be the order of the day. The left who, if given the chance, would systematically neuter those of us who are like "Archie" and aren't ashamed to be proud of this country, even with its' shortcomings.

As you said, and "Archie's" bumper sticker read, "America - Love It or Leave It!"

(Do you happen to know where I could get one of those bumper stickers ...?)
Demonization of liberals doesn't help to defeat their arguments. Challenging a liberal to say "America is the greatest country in the world, hands down," is not going to convince them of the error of their ways.

You'll need to come up with a more intellectual argument.
Ah, but Lockey, it's rare to get the left to admit being happy about anything this country does, let alone this admin...so, if one lefty agress wtih Archie, it in fact nullifies the vitriolic bilge I certainly have experienced since 03/05 - in essence, they ain't happy about anything. The moral relativism, pernicious and incessant attacks on anything this admin does is staggering. En total - I wish they all had but one neck (thanks Caligula) - but Archie does it just fine for me. I'm loading up to get them with other stuff. Just wait and see how enlightened the intellectual arguments there are from the left. Demonizing - nah I like calling it 'fun with things that have the intellectual capacity of boiled asparagus' To quote the great Jamie Leee Curtis from a 'Fish Called Wanda' calling the left stupid would be an insult to stupid people! Challenging a lefty loon to say ALIOLI 'is' key to my whole premise since out of 100 plus posts on this blog, there have been maybe two that any lefty has said...I agree, wow you're right, the US is great, we are right for doing x, y, z.... Now go into the archives and look at the bit I did on the NEA - even in their planks for thier own org I found something useful just to show the left I am really a nice person and not the baby eating devil bat Peolis and Dean think I am. My goal is to not convince them in the error of their ways. My task is to continue to show how silly the left is, how conservatism is not an ideology but a way of life, and that in the end, liberalism will fail like it's failed every time it's tried - local, state, fed, schools, etc. I guess I am this way since I fancy The Smile of Reason of Voltaire over J Locke and Descartes. 'I Blog Therefore I am!' Thanks Rene D...but the 'Liberty of thought as the life of my soul' is what does it for me, not the wonders of my gvt as Lockey wants me to believe!
gr82brt said:
"Your regular left leaning contributors haven't answered your challenge."

CR asked his regular lefties not to comment/debate this point and I, for one, was respecting his wishes.

I love CR and therefore I respected his wishes - even if I disagree with them.

I love my son, therefore, I respect his wishes, even if he wants to grow up to be a terrorist or a rightwinger.

After all, if I love someone or something, I let them do whatever they wish.

I'm betting, and hoping, you're a Python fan. Any chance, for laughs, you could post the Philosopher's Song? The mentioning of Descartes, Voltaire, et al made me think of the song. Thanks for giving me a chuckle.
And to locke_and_dem...
I think it is evident from the posts throughout this blog, that no matter what, or how, a premis is put before a liberal, it is they who can't accept a challenge on an intellectual basis. And in this "Archie" post, the liberal silence is defening. In the challenge put before them by CR, as "unintellectual" as you may think it is, not one liberal has stood up and admitted to anything positive about the USA. One really should feel sorry for a person whose ideology is so profoundly grounded in the hatred of the place that gave birth to their freedom. As I said in my earlier comments, I can still feel pride in this country and its' founding ideology despite the shortcomings and mis-steps that have been made along the way. The liberals who frequent this blog, obviously don't feel that way ... what a shame.
So, I'm confused. Do you want or not want responses? If the only response that you want from us lefties is, "Yes, the US is the best country in the world," we may choose not to respond. I would choose not to respond.

If you'd like us to talk about what makes the US great, I reckon you'd get more responses.
I'm sorry that you don't think this is the greatest country in the world. That, I believe, is what CR was trying to get his left leaning contributors to admit, not whether you agreed or not with the other arguments in the post. You couldn't have at least agreed with that point. Instead you hid behind the "respecting his wishes" comment and said nothing.
And I'm also sorry that you would respect your sons's wishes to become a terrorist. Killing innocent people, supposedly in the name of a benevolent being in the hopes of gaining entry into the kingdom of heaven, is not what I would hope or want for my children. Loving someone doesn't mean you should promote, condone or excuse behavior that is dangerous, and above all WRONG!
I think your reasoning sums up what is wrong with the approach of dealing with terror by the left. Let's respect everyone's wishes, understand why they do the things that they do and embrace an ideology that is so inherently evil that it would take the lives of the innocent.
And you signed off your post with "Blessings? ..." How sad.

I think you missed my subtle humor. This post was on "America, Love it or leave it," and I was making a little commentary on how VERY MUCH we need to correct those that we love. In other words, I love my son and I WOULD NOT respect his wishes to be a terrorist or rightwinger, I would work against him to change him BECAUSE I love him.

Similarly, some of us love our country and will not just let it go down a wrong road.

Sort of a joke, you see?

And speaking of not getting it, you do realize that Archie Bunker was designed to satirize those of his mindset, don't you?
I hope you don't make a living with your subtle humor ... For someone who is a fan of A Night at the Opera & The Holy Grail, you're not a very good student of how to deliver comedy. And let's be honest. You're really trying to mask your true ideology with the humor excuse aren't you? Too bad you had to try to hide behind that. Have to say I had more respect for you, even while disagreeing with you, before you used it.
It's like taking a test ... usually your first answer, like a gut instinct, is the correct one and you shouldn't go back to correct yourself. Your first comment to this post revealed your true ideology and you had to envoke the humor excuse to try to hide it. What a shame. Then your last post was a direct dig at me, not my ideas, where you are obviously getting even more testy and your gloves are about to come off ... that's a pity as well.
IT WAS A JOKE with a point, which you re-inforced. (OK, my last Archie Bunker comment WAS a dig and probably inappropriate, and for that, I apologize. OK?)

But you said that "Loving someone doesn't mean you should promote, condone or excuse behavior that is dangerous, and above all WRONG!" which was my point. I agree. And that is why I reserve the right to criticize my country. Not love it or leave it, but love it and want it to be its best. And so my joke served to reinforce my point, which, while it may have been poor humor, was a good point. Wouldn't you agree?

Here - to even things out, I'll make a joke at my own expense - You DO understand, don't you Dan, that "Meathead" was a satirical commentary on the left?
Now that was well delivered ... However, we will continue to politely disagree on this point: Although you have the privilege of questioning/challenging our government, the country from which you hail, America, is where you can proudly do that questioning. Without the good ol' US of A you and I wouldn't be able to exchange our ieals and criticisms in this manner. And that is why I can still love HER and don't ever want to leave HER.
And on a lighter note, could you enduldge me by answering these questions ...
Is Impelazarri's (sp?) still making the best bread sticks in town? Does The Bristol still make great artichoke fritters?
and lastly ...
Is Alun Jones still the artistic director of the ballet company?

Have a great day.
1. Think so
2. Yes (I work a half block away from downtown Bristol).
3. No (a fella by the name of Jack Lemmon - ! - took over in 2003).

You a former Louavulian?
by way of Fort Knox ... army brat.
And I have to say it is very wrong that the Cards are being coached by Rick Pitino ...
I just wanted to mention that most arguments from the left, not all but most, primarily consist of mischarachterizations and demonization designed to appeal not to the intellect, but to the emotions of people. One has only to look at the arguments of people like Ted Kennedy, Al sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Billary Clinton, etc . . . to see this trend.
On the other hand there are some very good and decent liberals who do present intelligent arguments and smart sattire while arguing their points without demonstrating a hatred for America and the American way of life. My favorite two of these are Alan Colmes and John Stuart. While I disagree with much of what they say they often meke excellent points that should be considered by conservatives if for no other reason than it helps us to shore up our arguments and positions.
Unforyunately, most of the voices on the left do seem to hate America and desperately want to remake it in the image of the Soviet Union while clinging to some insane hope that men like Stalin won't come to power and ruin the country/murder millions of people/oppress the religious/restrict the press and so on as has happened in every communist/socialist country to date. Ideals are one thing, but when ideals and reality conflict you have no choice but to accept reality and deal with it.

DL said:
"...ruin the country/murder millions of people/oppress the religious/restrict the press and so on as has happened in every communist/socialist country to date."

This is not the case. While all states, including our own, have their problems - sometimes quite serious, it should be noted that this is not a function of socialism or communism.

For instance, Cuba has a society that functions fairly well (with some caveats); Nicaragua under the Sandinistans was doing pretty well considering war was being waged against them with sponsorship from a world superpower; the French socialists did not commit your litany of sins; Hugo Chavez is leading Argentina without embracing wholesale despotism.

This is not a defense of Socialist Russian crimes or even of Castro's crimes. Just setting the record straight that communism does not necessarily historically equal depravity and ruin.

And I'll say it again to be clear: YES, Castro has some serious human rights issues as does Chavez. But so does Bush and other leaders in US history.

Of these three countries, which would I choose to live in? The US. But what I hear from my friends who have lived in or visited these places, they're NOT the same as Stalin's USSR. That's my only point, to correct your quoted assessment.

Rave on, brotherman.
[I wouldn't want you to be guilty of "emotional mischaracterizations and demonizations..."]

[And for clarity's sake, that was a good-natured teasin']
So now you kids are playing nice...Dan and gr82brt...that's great....see what a uniter this blog can be...the left and the right coming together for the common good of all - demonstrating that diametrical political opposites can co-exist in this country! I Love America!
By the way, is it pronounced, "Great Tubert" and, if so, who was the Great Tubert...?
There are some good points here on both sides. However I also think it's important to make the distinction between loving America and loving our governments policies.

I hate to break it to you but government sponsored torture without any sort of justice system is UN-AMERICAN. Frankly I think it's unbelievable that you are more upset about the pictures being released than you are about the fact that our government sponsors the torturing of innocent people around the world. The conservative Right(notice I didn't say Republicans) has always used this 'love it or leave it' logic to justify their actions and suppress dissent.

Sponsor Torture - 'love it or leave it'

Stay in a losing battle in Vietnam - 'love it or leave it'

McCarthyism - 'love it or leave it'

Stay out of WWII, Hitler isn't our business - 'love it or leave it'


It's BS and you don't get to decide what a true American believes. Especially since your side has been wrong in the past.
CR - A uniter, not a divider.

I smell a t-shirt here!

Great post!
Thanks...Keep The Faith!
Best Arcnie comment ever: I aint prejudiced, I hate everybody.
Archie should be on Mt Rushmore!
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